B. Alan Wallace, 20 Apr 2016
Following up his commentary in the last few days on the description of mastering the dhyanas and the resultant siddhis, Alan says that in all traditions there is no specific “meditation manual” on achieving the dhyana levels except in the academic literature. Alan explains however that each tradition have their own practice and developmental methods e.g. lam-rim, stage of generation and completion, six yogas etc. However, all traditions agree that access to the first dhyana (shamatha) is sufficient to be able to venture into all other practices with full effectiveness in reaching the path, proceeding along and completing the path. Following the gradual path of sutrayana (without Vajrayana), you will need to achieve all the dhyanas and it will take from three to seven aeons to achieve enlightenment. All schools and sub-schools of Tibetan Buddhism use the sutrayana as a launching pad into Vajrayana practice. All the siddhis mentioned in the dhyanas arise during the Vajrayana stage of generation and completion by-the-by. The practices for realizing emptiness, for guru-yoga, for visualisations and mantras can be viewed as high-tech meditation. What are the benefits of achieving the access to the first dhyana (shamatha)? The five obscurations become dormant and the five dhyana factors are at one’s fingertips. At a subtler level there is a fundamental energy shift in the whole body and a corresponding fine-tuning of the mind which becomes pliant, malleable, supple and ready to engage in more advanced practices (bodhicitta, emptiness, tong-len, etc.). This is the big deal of shamatha. In achieving shamatha, Alan warns us that there is going to be an enormous temptation to get stuck in the experiences of bliss, luminosity and non-conceptuality. If one stops there, thinking these qualities are “as close to nirvana as I care about”, the great masters, including the Buddha, state that one has not moved one hair’s breadth towards the path to enlightenment. Alan says that we have to start being prepared now about this, by developing the skill of maintaining the stillness of our awareness in the midst of these spikes of effective practice (bliss, luminosity, non-conceptuality). When spikes come up, be at ease, loose, totally present with no preference. If you can’t do this for the small spikes that come in stage 1 to 4 of shamatha, then you’ll be sucked in when you will be up there in shamatha. Maintain the stillness, free of grasping, in the midst of the motions of bliss, luminosity and non-conceptuality. We need to break the habit of grasping to both pleasant (bliss, etc.) and unpleasant nyams (sadness, fear, depression, low self-esteem, etc.). It is ever so easy to fuse with the unpleasant nyam (I’m such a loser…, everyone else is doing well except me) and to identify with the pleasant nyam. We need this skill to keep on moving and reach the authentic path.
Alan answers a question about this meditation practice concerning what to do with non-virtuous thoughts. Do you apply any antidote? Alan’s response covers cognitive fusion, stillness of awareness, other practices (four applications of mindfulness, four immeasurables, lam-rim, lojong) and faith in the inner capacity of one’s own mind.
Meditation is silent (not recorded).
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Olaso. So over the last four days as we’ve lingered day after day on that one passage from the Perfection of Wisdom Sutra about the siddhis, there have been many references by the Buddha, Karma Chagme and so on, to the dhyanas and especially to the fourth dhyana to mastering all the dhyanas, Buddhaghosa, mastering all the [? 00:24 sumapatis] even in the formless realm, so a lot of references to that. But over the last 45 years that I’ve been studying and practicing dharma and been introduced to and guided in many many meditation manuals and so on, from all traditions, all the four traditions in Tibetan Buddhism. I’ve never found one meditation manual that was really intended for you to sit down and practice, that actually gave practical instructions on, achieving fully achieving the first, second, third, fourth dhyana and so forth. I’ve studied these academically and there are very very fine teachings on them I mean outstanding, really precise but when you get to the practice literature there is something of a difference, whether there should be or shouldn’t be, but there is. In the Gelugpa tradition it’s lam rim, it’s lam rim and then it’s frankly, then it’s stage of generation and completion. And that’s it and that takes you all the way to enlightenment. And in the Kagyu tradition it’s their lam rim, it’s gampopa, jewel ornament, or one of the others. It’s the six yogas and then of course including the Mahamudra, the six yogas of naropa, stage of generation and completion. Same for the Sakya tradition, very strong emphasis, they have their own lamdre, a kind of lam rim, then stage of generation and completion, vajra yogini, a vajra [? unclear 01:45] very strongly emphasized, and then the Nyingma tradition again has extensive teachings, their own lam rim, Words of My Perfect Teacher, lam rim. And a lot of emphasis of course on the preliminaries and then stage of generation and completion. [?Tibetan 2:00] for example kind of like almost a variation on the vajra yogini, but black. A very very strongly emphasized stage of generation/completion, mahayoga, anuyoga the same very strongly emphasized and then of course there is atiyoga.
[00:02:16] So we have mahamudra we have dzogchen literature. And I have been introduced to a fair amount of that over the last 25 years and in none of any of those are there any references I’ve ever seen in the Tibetan tradition for the last 1200 years that gives detailed accounts of and emphasis on the importance of actually achieving, fully achieving the first dhyana, the second, third, fourth. So are they missing something? Well no. They all agree that access to the first dhyana is sufficient samadhi to be able to venture into all of these other practice with full effectiveness. In other words you reach the path, you receive the path, you come to the completion of the path. If you’re following bodhisattva yana purely, just sutrayana all the way without any of these vajrayana practices then it’s pretty clear, you go to the [? tibetan 3:06 adisamvacara] you do need to achieve all of those dhyanas. And it also takes you three countless eons, you know from start to finish. That’s the shorter version. The Dalai Lama says sometimes it takes seven. [laughter] I’d be frankly have to [be] disappointed after three countless eons if I size up on to buddhahood oh I’m one of the seven, geez four more. It would become a bit daunting to me I think. But there it is. So if you’re following the very gradual path then yeah you definitely, there’s no question the bodhisattvas will achieve all of those dhyanas especially in the advanced stage, in the great stage of the Mahayana path of accumulation, they’ll be coming in there. Big emphasis on the paranormal abilities there, the siddhis. But all of Tibetan buddhism I mean every school every sub school they are all using the sutrayanas as a launching pad for going into vajrayana above all stage of generation/completion and then Mahamudra Dzogchen to varying extents. And the point here being that all those siddhis, all those benefits that you would otherwise get step by step by step you know getting of the dhyanas and so forth, you pick up all of those in stage of generation and stage of completion. All the siddhis all the benefits are there, they come by the by with more advanced technology that’s really basically what it is. You can get it with the cruder technology, with the nimitas in the form realm, mastering all of that. It’s brilliant because it’s so transparent, you know it’s just, I find it very inspiring because I can really see it you know I can understand it but in a much more subtle way, profound way, a sophisticated way, drawing on the teachings of emptiness, realization of emptiness it’s drawing on the power of empowerment, of guru yoga, of visualization, of mantra, the chakras and the nadis, you’ve moved into a whole other dimension here. Frankly it’s higher tech, it’s high tech, high tech meditation, yet all the same benefits from stage of generation/completion without practicing Mahamudra Dzogchen. It’s all, it’s a complete path, Tsongkhapa didn’t teach Mahamudra or Dzogchen, he certainly taught a complete path, no question, to my mind there’s no question about that. Focusing just on this lineage while I’ve received different lineages but the one that I emphasize a lot the Dudjom lineage, the Dudjom gives very very clear precise teachings on shamatha all the way up to access to the first dhyana, disillusion into the substrate consciousness, emphasizes again and again and makes no reference not even one reference in all the five works on Dzogchen not a single reference to achieving the first dhyana, second, third, fourth and so on, none. It’s that, and then stage of generation/completion are optional. What is not optional is the shamatha, the shamatha is indispensable, realization of emptiness is indispensable, realizing rigpa indispensable, for some people that’s actually sufficient. The really gifted ones, they don’t even have to practice togal, they can just go right to rainbow body with just resting in rigpa, but most people they’ll need that so then you’ll have the culminating phase, the leap over is the togal.
[06:17] So, and then you say if you skip stage of generation/completion or just do them lightly without fully accomplishing them which is rather common, we see here in the Kagyu tradition from Karma Chagme Rinpoche he never said anything about completing the stage of generation. He gets the [? 06:33 Tibetan] practice very simple, no mandala, very simple and then proceeded right from there to shamatha, vipashyana and right into Mahamudra and Dzogchen, and togal and then rainbow body. He never talked about you know elaborate practices of stage of generation or completion. So then where does it come in, and it comes in very clearly, it comes all those siddhis all that depth of compassion all the extent of wisdom of so forth and so on. Comes in the Dzogchen tradition from the tregcho and the togal. The cutting through to pristine purity, original purity of rigpa, the direct crossing over to the spontaneous actualization, all the siddhis come through there. And they come spontaneously, that is you don’t go out of your way to seek them, you’re not doing any particular techniques, you’re just staying right on the straight road of realizing rigpa, dwelling in rigpa and then when you really can do that, then venture fully into the togal and you don’t do anything separate to develop siddhis or extra sensory perception or anything it’s just all comes spontaneously. Right from the main practice. Now the one point I would like to make before we go in and that is the substrate consciousness or access to the first dhyana what is absolutely imperative and all schools of Buddhism agree on this and it seems like all schools of Buddhism are not ignoring it but kind of, marginalizing it, the importance of achieving this access to the first dhyana, what’s the big deal, I could spend an hour on that. But very simply put just looking at the teachings of the Buddha, if your five obscurations are down, they’re down, they’re dormant they’re out of the way, and then the five dhyana factors are at your fingertips, that’s the big deal on a subtler level you have this shift, a shift in the body, the energy system and shift in your mind of pliancy the [? 08:33 Tibetan] the pliancy buoyancy, malleability Tsongkhapa really emphasizes this, this is the big deal about achieving shamatha this is fundamental energy shift in your whole body it’s a whole new platform and unless you do something really crazy you keep it for the rest of your life. That was from His Holiness. And then corresponding to this very subtle extreme fine tuning of the prana system within your body there’s a corresponding fine tuning of your mind, your mind is pliable, malleable, supple, ready for work and you keep that for the rest of your life. That’s your new base camp for everything, for bodhicitta, for tonglen, for everything. And so there it is indispensable right.
[00:09:12] But now the great challenge here and they all recognize it, all the great yogis in Tibet recognized it. Is that when you have come to rest in this subtle continuum of mental consciousness, use Gelugpa terminology and you are experiencing this bliss, luminosity and non conceptuality I’ve said it before so I’ll simply say it very briefly now there’s going to be an enormous temptation to stop. Because and stop, you have three really good reasons to stop. Any one of them would be a really good reason to stop, let alone three all together you know. That is there’s the bliss and some people say I don’t need anything more thank you. And if they don’t have deep renunciation they say that’s what I wanted and I can have it whenever I want, whenever I go in I’ve got it you know and they’ll be stuck, stuck on that one. Some the luminosity, that’s all they really wanted and they get stuck. Others that profound peace of non conceptuality that’s all I wanted this is as close to nirvana as I care about, I’m finished, I’m done, thank you, thanks a million, and then bye you know and it’s falling to the extreme of quiescence, quiescence is shamatha actually in this context and that’s the big pitfall. Did you needed to get there but once you’re there you’ll just want to burrow in and stay. And if you do then, they all say, they all say, the Buddha himself says everybody says, you have not moved one hair’s breadth on the path to enlightenment. You got so close, you got right on to the on ramp right to where the light is turning red and green, red and green in the United States. You got right there and then you just turn off your engine and you sit back and say I made it on the on ramp ha ha ha ha ha [laughter] and that means you have not made one not moved one inch on the freeway because you got right to the freeway and then you just, I’m happy I’m out of the traffic there’s a green light hi and then fall asleep at the wheel.
[11:28] Final point so this may sound abstract and that’s later and later no worry no problem I haven’t gotten there I’ll deal with that when I come with it. Yeah if that’s as big as my problem is cool. [laughter] Prepare now because you won’t know what hit you when you get there if you’re not prepared you’ll give all the lip service yeah I’m not going to be attached. [laughs] You have to be doing this all the way along. A number of you are already experiencing spikes, spikes of bliss, spikes of enjoyment, spikes of serenity, spikes of stillness, spikes of peace, spikes of luminosity, vividness, clarity quite a number of you are they come they go, oh Tuesday was really good, Wednesday not so great oh I experience this I experience that. It’s good, theses are good, these are all signs of the path, signs of progress along the path but it starts now and that is when these spikes come up be present with them and just be at ease, loose, totally present, with no preference. If you can’t do it for the little spikes of bliss luminosity and non conceptuality that come up you know in stages 1,2,3,4 if you just totally glom onto those, then forget about it when you’re up there at shamatha you’re going to be totally sucked in. So that skill of looseness, of non grasping, of non preference, of one taste and it’s all about this here goes my finger again that is my index finger for those listening by podcast. It’s that stillness, that stillness that freedom from grasping, that unflickering candle flame that stillness in the midst of the motions of bliss luminosity and non conceptuality. Because if you are drawn to them now and I’ve heard this so many times from you, a number of you in our meetings that you know you were just practicing along and then something really cool happened and then it didn’t, and then how can I get that back? How can I get that back? Where was that? Where was it? What can I do? What can I do? I’ve got to get that back. Where is it? Where did it go? Where did it go? I’m going to find that little sucker, I’m going to track it down, I’m going to get it again. And that’s just the wrong way to go about it. It’s just kind of like a neon sign, I’m grasping, you know so you need to break that habit now. You need to break the habit for the grasping to the pleasant nyam and equally, equally, equally need to release the grasping to the unpleasant nyam. The emotions that come up they’re not all pleasant.
[00:14:13] Sadness, one person mentioned his sadness coming up out of the blue and I said was there a referent? Nope. Was it real sadness? Yep. And it lasted and I think in this case a couple of days. And it’s well it’s pretty easy to have that cognitive fusion that I’m sad, I’m sad and there was no referent, that’s a nyam. That’s a nyam. That’s a nyam for sure. I’m anxious, I’m fearful, I’m excited, I’m bored, I’m depressed, I’m worthless, I’m probably never achieve shamatha. I, I, I the cognitive fusion. It’s ever so easy to fuse with the unpleasant nyam and think oh I’m such a loser I’ll never achieve, I’ll never get anywhere. Everybody else is doing well but not me. And then to identify with the unpleasant nyam. So if you’ve not started, start today. This is a skill that’s needed to work us along the path to get to shamatha and to keep on moving. So when you’re on the on ramp you’ve made it to the freeway and the light turned green, hit the accelerator and get out on the freeway. You know, don’t stop. Olaso, let’s go and practice. Let’s have a silent session, I think you know what to do.
[15:45] As you’re settling in I’d just like to remind everyone that chatting, socializing, unnecessary conversation does tend to give a lot of replays in the mind and so I would really encourage you if you really decide you want to talk, you find a willing partner, please go someplace distant. Because if you’re in an environment where other meditators are they may be obliged to listen in on your conversation without their wish. So let’s really cleave to the silence and if you wish to speak it’s your call, but go to a quiet place where other people will not be part of your conversation.
[16:22] Meditation bell rings three times. Meditation is silent not recorded.
[16:20] Meditation ends bell rings.
[16:37] So we have just a short time. [Oh that’s good. Alan speaks to someone in the room] We have just a short time I’m just wondering whether there might be any questions or comments from any of those who are auditing this retreat or any of those who don’t have your interviews with me just so I can have a bit of personal engagement. Anything coming up? About this practice very specifically. Yes please. I know your name, but please say it out loud and the microphone is coming or maybe you need to come to it. Should John come over? John if you could come over. And John please say your first name. [laughter]
Alan: Why don’t you sit down.
John: So um when thoughts come up.
Alan: Put the microphone closer to your mouth. Yeah.
John: When thoughts come up, if they’re you know obviously non virtuous or grasping whatever,
John: So you don’t apply an antidote?
John: Aren’t we accumulating you know our where I am, isn’t that familiarizing my mind with negative thought and reinforcing…
Alan: I think I understand, yeah, um… And the question with the emphasis from where you are. You are about two feet away from me. So that’s actually quite close. [laughter] And it’s a very good question, it’s relevant to everybody in the room and everybody listening by podcast, enormously relevant, I’m glad you’ve raised it. Insofar as, it’s not a yes or no, but insofar as it’s a gradient, insofar as there is cognitive fusion, identification with, the mental afflictions, some unwholesome mental state, yeah, then you are reinforcing a habit, that is true. And if that’s, and if there is a good deal of grasping, a good deal of this fusing with, getting caught up in the grip of the desires, emotions and so forth and so on then, then make sure you are doing other practices and giving them a lot of effort. The longjong, the lam rim, four applications of mindfulness, the four immeasurables, that’s why we have all of these practices. Come back to the theme yesterday, that we have this naturally abiding Buddha nature. Or let’s say the analog is just the stillness of awareness. And then we have the mind that we’re observing. Well as we proceed along the path the mind that we’re observing is going to get better and better. That’s the whole idea.
[19:38] So after a while mental afflictions hardly come up at all, then they don’t come up at all, and compassion’s just surging up and you know so forth and so on. So the mind that we’re observing it definitely doesn’t need to evolve. But now this practice which you know is completely endorsed by Panchen Rinpoche, so there’s no sectarian issue here at all of one school being for another one being against. It’s embraced by all of them. Insofar as when some unwholesome mental state, a mental affliction comes up, insofar as you can remain there in the stillness of your own awareness and simply be aware of it, without getting caught up, carried away by it, be aware of the mental affliction, without being fused with it and then having your attention go to the referent of the mental affliction, whether it’s craving, hostility, jealousy, whatever it may be as soon as that happens yeah whether or not you’re accumulating negative karma there’s a bit of nuance there but are you reinforcing an old habit of mental afflictions, yeah, as soon as there is cognitive fusion. But the whole point of this practice and that was the whole point of my preparatory comments for this last session was familiarize yourself, go deeper and deeper and deeper in resting in the stillness of your awareness even when bliss, luminosity and non conceptuality arises, so that you’re not caught up in them, carried away by them, cognitively fused with them. At the same time you’re not pulling away from it, it’s not dissociation. So it’s not that, that’s one extreme. And it’s not cognitive fusion, that’s the other extreme. It’s like my being with you right now for five seconds. I think you sensed I wasn’t withdrawing from you, but I’m not also leaping over to give you a hug or trying to get you to like me or anything like that. It was just being totally present with you. It’s like that.
[21:27] So this is the world of the great masters. And that is if you’re simply observing these mental afflictions arising, just arising in the space of your mind, you are not accruing any negative karma, you are not reinforcing old negative habits, but on the contrary by resting in the stillness of your awareness and observing these mental afflictions [and now some] states arising and then having no owner, no one to possess them, no one to fuse with them, you’re observing them arise and then without moving they’re the motion, you’re still. Without moving you observe them, release themselves, rang doh, release themselves and that is a really incredibly powerful message. And it’s everywhere in Mahamudra and Dzogchen. It doesn’t come up more in the, it doesn’t come up much if at all, in the developmental approach, like Shantideva. I mean the revered Shantideva, I think you have some idea of how profoundly I revere him. I don’t recall his using the term rang doh, in the whole text, but he gives this massive array like a, like a great physician, this tremendous array, this pharmacopeia, of all these ways of dealing with this mental afflictions, all the way up to reification, up in the wisdom chapter of how to remedy them, how to fix them, okay and you Patu Rinpoche, Patu Rinpoche who and it’s from him that Guru Lama Rinpoche received the lineage of the bodhicaryavatara, who in return received his Holiness you know received it from him. The great Patu Rinpoche was a great Dzogchen master, he was a great nyingmapa, a great nyingma lama, a great Dzogchen master. And he taught bodhicaryavatara, I can’t remember the exact number, I think one hundred and thirty five times during his lifetime. And he’s a Dzogchen master. He said why are you messing around with that why don’t you do Tregcho and Togal? Well because this is really good medicine. But it’s not the only medicine.
[00:23:25] And so this is the complementarity, the yang of the bodhicaryavatara and the yin of Dzogchen, Mahamudra and that is simply being present with, in this subtle way, this unflickering candle flame of your awareness. And then observing them just coming up and then it’s almost like they’re looking around for a host, you know, like a, like a, I don’t know, like a mosquito that has malaria, looking around for somebody’s blood to suck and then not finding any and then just dying. They have a short lifespan, and then just dying a natural death. They do, these mental afflictions have a short lifespan, if they don’t find a host. If they do find a host, oh they have a much longer lifespan than you do, they’ll be around forever. [Alan laughs] So don’t give them a host. They can come into your space, don’t give them a host and then they will just release themselves and that will start to give you some real confidence. Gyatso Rinpoche once commented to a group of his students who had been studying with him, practicing under his guidance for years and years and years. And he said a number of you are still quite dissatisfied with your level of progress that you, you know, you thought you would be further along the path and so forth. And I can tell you why you have not been progressing that much, your lack of faith. But I’m not referring to your lack of faith in me or the dharma, or Buddha, or Padmasambhava, your lack of faith in yourselves, that’s what slowing you up. Your lack of faith in yourselves, right. In Dzogchen your ultimate refuge, your explicit refuge is rigpa, and not somebody else’s rigpa, and not a rigpa you’ll have one day when you’re really good, when you’re a vidyadhara, what have you. The rigpa that is already there and by seeing this for yourself, it’s an inside job of faith. We can be very impressed by a teacher, some teachers are magnificent. Gowa Karmapa for example, the sixteenth Karmapa blew people away just by his sheer presence. His Holiness the Dalai Lama, Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche, Dudjom Rinpoche, Pema Rinpoche, Yangden Rinpoche, just being in the presence of these great beings can give rise to a lot of faith. But then of course they go away, you go away, actually they pass away, now where’s your faith?
[00:25:36] It may still be there, but if your faith is coming and it’s not yes or no which one is right it’s fantastic to be inspired by such people, but once you find faith from your own continuum, and you see for yourself, not by somebody else saying something or what have you. You see by yourself from your own experience how your mind does have the capacity to heal, to release, to free itself when you are just not exacerbating the problem. And exacerbating the problem is identifying with every doggone thing that comes up. You know, everything, the good, the bad, the ugly, the neutral, the boring. Fusing with all of it, the Buddha said: This is the root of suffering. This close cleaving to, this identification with our bodies, our mental states processes, this is the root of suffering right there. That’s Pali Canon, that’s fundamental Buddhism. You’ve heard it before I’m sure. And so we’re going right to the tap root here, in this simple shamatha practice and that is okay, to the best of my ability I’m going to stop doing that. And even if some Mara comes up, some mara, you know some negative, like an embodiment of some real nasty stuff coming up. Including afflictive uncertainty and so on, just to stare it right in the face. And in this practice you don’t even, you don’t even have to have a conversation. [? 27:02 name] had a conversation, she applied vipashyana, she’s very bright, she conquered mara with her vipassana. Because she came right back at him. He came up, she clobbered him, she knocked him out, he went away dejected, depressed. Man she beats me up, you know. But this one Mara comes up, you just stare him down. And oh Mara still goes away dejected, oh. So give a lot of disappoint to Mara.
[00:27:35] Final comment.
John: This raises, so it raises the question of ah, about a virtuous thought coming up, yeah.
Alan: As I understand where you’re going. And I’m going to quote Gyatrul Rinpoche, Even if a thousand Buddhas come to you, they will not bless you. Even if a thousand Maras come to you, they will not harm you. You don’t need the course samaya, remember? What’s the course samaya of Dzogchen? Amy?
Amy: Do not look for the Buddha outside yourself.
Alan: Do not look for the Buddha outside yourself. It comes in the Zen tradition, when understood properly. If you see the Buddha kill him. Okay, now I’ve seen one incredibly disgusting interpretation of that. Where the guy hates religion and he said if you see any religious aspect of Buddhism knock it out. What nonsense. But of course that is not the meaning, of these great Dzogchen masters or these Zen masters, of course not. If you are reifying the Buddha as outside of yourself. Beata if I am saying this correctly, you know this much better than I. And I am serious if I’m saying anything wrong please just jump right up. But my interpretation of Zen and I have no training at all, is that if you see the buddha as something objective and you reify it, then kill it. You’re not killing the buddha you’re killing your reification, you’re cutting the root of samsara by cutting and expecting the blessings are going to come from the outside. Something outside like that you know. The Buddha is your own rigpa, the buddha is your own buddha nature. And so even if a virtuous thought comes up in this practice let it be. It came from your mind, it will go right back in again.
[00:29:22] But this is just allowing the mind to heal, transform such that the virtues compassion, kindness, empathy they just start flowing out. Bear in mind the highest type of compassion and this is again accepted in all schools of Tibetan Buddhism. The highest kind of compassion is called [? 29:39 Tibetan phrase] [repeats the Tibetan phrase] Objectless compassion and that is where there is no referent that one is identifying and reifying and then wishing may you be free of suffering, may you be free of suffering and the causes of suffering. This is still good, this is called tainted compassion, because it’s still tainted by reification that all these tragic people here in this part of the world, this person, this person, this person oh I will pray for you. I will send you tonglen, I reified, I you reified you, I wish you to be free of suffering. It’s certainly much better that malice, it’s a virtue, but it’s a much deeper virtue, to let your virtue be totally untainted by any kind of reification at all. Was that ok, Beata do you have any comments on, was it ok what I said?
Alan: Okay, thank you, good. Very good, very important question John, thank you. We will do this again, we’ll do it again. It’s good. All right enjoy your day, let’s continue practicing.
Transcribed by KrissKringle Sprinkle
Revised by Rafael Carlos Giusti
Final edition by Rafael Carlos Giusti